Argued on Cadre Blog Agassi atheist who argues that these passages are not Trinitarian formula but just radum linking of separate things. Of course he did not read the passages.
Joe Hinman said...
Joe Hinman said...
ok in depth look at the passages, by no means the only passages just some of the major one;s people use.
Matthew 28:19
Quote: 19 "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,"
Father, Son, holy spirit
according to your argument this is just three separate unrelated things for no real reason. He;s saying when you convert people Baptiste them into these three names or one name designating the three, Either way they are clearly related because one's salvation is gained through them as in their name. Why would he link those three to soething so importation?
We never see any other formula, no one every says apostles,prophetess and cease, or whatever, baptize them into the names Rufus, Roddoe and George, we don;'t see this
all groups of three names are those three in benidctions,
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1 Corinthians 12:4-6
quotr: "There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. 5 There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6 There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work."
Spirit, Lord, God
This is in relation to the gifts of the Holy Spirit, So the link of God to Holy Sprint is natural but why include Lord? Baht is Jesus' designation, again this is more significant that just listing three random unrelated items,that would make no sense, As a Totalitarian passage it makes sense,
_________________________
2 Corinthians 13:14
Christ, God, holy spirit
"14 May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all."
This is a benediction so they are bribing God in to it as a closure, where you bless someone and close the interview and send them on their way with God's blessing that's what benedictions do. They always revolve around giving God's blessing. that's what's really being said: "God bless you.' In that context he includes Jesus as Lord which means God, this a title reserved for God and in NT it is used of Jesus all the time.
Why would he just stick in three maltreated names into the benediction? It's not something where you just mention irrelevant things, this kind of benediction with these three persona is used over and over again.
____________________
Galatians 4:4-6
God, son spirit of his son
Quote: 4 "But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship.[a] 6 Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba,[b] Father.”"
Very significant passage,
we know from other passages that it is the Holy Spirit who gives us gifts and saves us and changes us and communicates with us, So to speak of the spirit of his son in connection with being adopted by God links Jesus to The Holy Spirit that is clearly a Trinitarian formulation. Why Spirit of Son rather then of God? Because the passage is about sonship, Being the Spirit of God's son also links Jesus to God since it is the spirit of God's son,
at that point they were clearly thinking along the lines of a synonymy between Fahter ,Son and Holy Spirit
___________________________
Ephesians 4:4-6
Spirit, Lord, God
4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
Very important passage Because it emphasis the unity in the God head, They point is one, One God. For this reason it is argued by some that it is a latter work not by Paul. Even so it's not that late. it still reflects Trinatairn thinking prior to the doctrine's formulation.
Matthew 28:19
Quote: 19 "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,"
Father, Son, holy spirit
according to your argument this is just three separate unrelated things for no real reason. He;s saying when you convert people Baptiste them into these three names or one name designating the three, Either way they are clearly related because one's salvation is gained through them as in their name. Why would he link those three to soething so importation?
We never see any other formula, no one every says apostles,prophetess and cease, or whatever, baptize them into the names Rufus, Roddoe and George, we don;'t see this
all groups of three names are those three in benidctions,
___________________
1 Corinthians 12:4-6
quotr: "There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. 5 There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6 There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work."
Spirit, Lord, God
This is in relation to the gifts of the Holy Spirit, So the link of God to Holy Sprint is natural but why include Lord? Baht is Jesus' designation, again this is more significant that just listing three random unrelated items,that would make no sense, As a Totalitarian passage it makes sense,
_________________________
2 Corinthians 13:14
Christ, God, holy spirit
"14 May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all."
This is a benediction so they are bribing God in to it as a closure, where you bless someone and close the interview and send them on their way with God's blessing that's what benedictions do. They always revolve around giving God's blessing. that's what's really being said: "God bless you.' In that context he includes Jesus as Lord which means God, this a title reserved for God and in NT it is used of Jesus all the time.
Why would he just stick in three maltreated names into the benediction? It's not something where you just mention irrelevant things, this kind of benediction with these three persona is used over and over again.
____________________
Galatians 4:4-6
God, son spirit of his son
Quote: 4 "But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship.[a] 6 Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba,[b] Father.”"
Very significant passage,
we know from other passages that it is the Holy Spirit who gives us gifts and saves us and changes us and communicates with us, So to speak of the spirit of his son in connection with being adopted by God links Jesus to The Holy Spirit that is clearly a Trinitarian formulation. Why Spirit of Son rather then of God? Because the passage is about sonship, Being the Spirit of God's son also links Jesus to God since it is the spirit of God's son,
at that point they were clearly thinking along the lines of a synonymy between Fahter ,Son and Holy Spirit
___________________________
Ephesians 4:4-6
Spirit, Lord, God
4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
Very important passage Because it emphasis the unity in the God head, They point is one, One God. For this reason it is argued by some that it is a latter work not by Paul. Even so it's not that late. it still reflects Trinatairn thinking prior to the doctrine's formulation.
